reappropriate

Monday, May 15, 2006

Misinformation and Character Assasination

It makes a girl wanna throw her hands up in frustration. It makes a girl wonder why she tries to stimulate dialogue, why she puts herself out there, and why she writes for the sake of writing. Recently, my writing has been the target of numerous scathing remarks and criticisms. I've felt the otaku wrath and survived relatively unscathed (although a few dollars poorer since having to increase bandwidth to compensate for the rise in popularity). Not one to take criticism lightly, I've nonetheless found little that has bothered me in that debate (all of it is rather amusing, actually). After all, being called a "cunt" by furious otaku only served to prove an earlier point. But, it was when the DACs (not to be confused with your everyday Asian American Man) started pointing the finger that things really became personal. Two politicized Asian American forums linked some previous posts and proceeded to debate not only the merits of my argument (which I can handle) but tried to fling the shit with ad hominem attacks. And though this doesn't hurt me personally (it is, after all, the blogosphere and I invite a certain amount of this on myself by putting my viewpoints out there for the world to read), it is extremely debilitating to advocate community-building, only to have my arguments smeared by (mis)accusations of being a whore for White dick (with all the sexism inherent in such a statement), therefore rendering all discussion from me moot. For the record: I have never sucked a White man's dick. I don't have any particular desire to suck a White man's dick. I have never been romantically involved with a White man. If one were to build a pie chart of all men I have ever had a crush on from the age of 13 to 23, one might come up with percentages reflecting racial diversity much higher than current population statistics (even though building such a pie chart would only embrace a 'tokenism' defense that I don't even want to touch). To counter accusations of never having given an Asian American Man a chance, I went with an Asian American boy to prom (again, a 'tokenism' defense I loathe to touch). And this blog steers clear of overt discussion about my exceptionally long-term relationship with my current significant other. And none of this matters. I repeat, none of this matters. In fact, I am disgusted that I feel the need now to clarify this about my personal life and romantic history. Whom I date should bear no reflection upon what I have to say about my experiences as a politicized Asian American Woman. Whether I am Chinese or Japanese, Korean or Filipino should matter not when it comes to an academic discussion about Okihiro and Kingston. And it strikes me as ironic for a DAC to, in the same breath, balance my intellectuality with the same weight as my sexuality and simultaneously deny the sexism against Asian American Women. What infuriates and overwhelms me is the deep splintering of the Asian American community. Here we are: ten days into our month, during a time when we should be reflecting about our collective histories, and we cannot do anything but tear one another down, demanding that one faction's experiences supercede those of all others. If the feminism movement has long ostracized the woman of colour, the denial of sexism in the Asian American community creates a similar marginalization of the Asian American Woman in the Asian American narrative. Ultimately, it's the Asian American Woman who ends up marginalized and disenfranchised, finding no place to call her political home. Now is the time to put aside our differences, to open our hearts and minds to the experiences of others within our community. It is a time for me as an Asian American Woman to imagine the difficulties of feeling emasculation in American society, to imagine the classism faced by the economically disadvantaged Asian refugee population, and to advocate a change in treatment of the Asian American mentally ill. It is a time to work towards finding a collective narrative that we can all rally behind, even while recognizing the insider oppressions and experiences some within our community struggle against. But maybe I'm just too much of an idealist.

61 Comments:

Blogger phillyjay said...

So based on your personal life, they are debating your views?I seems like lots of people take the whole "personal is political" thing to the extreme.But thats's the way racial politics are at times.If you're very racially political and you don't have a same race partner,that will matter more than your actual views or opinions for many people.Ah well, that's life I guess.Don't let it get to ya.

5/15/2006 05:54:00 PM  
Anonymous tekanji said...

I really like how the DAC's totally missed your point. And by "really like", I mean "makes me want to cry."

You would think that, oh, I don't know, they'd read your post and maybe get a clue that your sexuality belongs to you. And that, by making it an issue, they're doing a disservice not only to AAW (who they don't seem to care about, unless they overstep their boundaries and *gasp* date someone they like rather than only someone with the "right" skin colour), but to themselves, too.

Grr.

5/15/2006 06:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fuck those stupid DACs. Their patriarchal, miseducated mindset really kills this entire APA History Month.

And what is it with those bitter Asian DACs and their tired rhetoric of "whitey's taking our wimminz". When such idiots attack interracial relationships (and believe me, being in a mixed-race experience class made me feel even more contempt toward pure monoracialists) and counterattack with ad hominem epitets....that's saying that hapas are ugly products from being raped by the colonizer, thus they deserve a horrible life....

I myself am hapa, and I find those DACs an absolute disgrace to OUR movement as (h)APA women, and to our cause.

Those fools need to seriously rethink their oppressive mentalities.

5/15/2006 07:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am tired of seeing asian females like you claiming to represent the asian perspective. You are playing to the model minority stereotype that your social network and mate is forcing on you. You think you need to be some super representative of the asian race. Yet you don't even give your own kind a chance in the dating world (sorry one prom date is not going to cut it) or possibly the social world. How the hell can a person like you be trusted to represent the asian view? You should just label yourself as a feminist and not an asian feminist. Your asian related views are not pro asian. They are the ultra model minority western view of what an asian female should say. I don't appreciate you labeling asian men as “DAC”. It shows a lack of respect for your own kind. But hey since you threw the first punch with your “asian american are to blamed for colonial sexism in asia” I will throw something back.

You along with your supporters have psychological issues with asian men. I see it in your rants against asian men. If you had no issues you wouldn't be so obsessed about us “DAC”. Like that uncle tom said, “Get over it.”

5/15/2006 08:00:00 PM  
Blogger phillyjay said...

"(and believe me, being in a mixed-race experience class made me feel even more contempt toward pure monoracialists)"

Do you really have contempt for monoracial people?

Anonymous

Yep, just like I thought.Who you're with determines whether you're "down" or not.Nothing else will matter.Some people take this racial justice thing way too far.

5/15/2006 08:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You continually complain about the concerns of asian american men overwhelming those of the women, when it's clear that the artistic canon is completely dominated by the works of Amy Tan and her ilk. Where are the books and plays by the men in a field full of Tan's and Hong-Kingstons and Jens and Louies (not to mention the prevalence of asian women in tv shows, movies...?)

It would be just lovely to see "empowered asian american women" be flipping grateful at the amount of exposure they get, recognize that the men don't have the same privilege. Jeez, is it so hard to *support* the men and their concerns for once, instead of merely ranting and raving against sexism and misogyny - as if THAT solely defines the canon? I suppose that would take away from your power hungry agenda.

5/15/2006 08:51:00 PM  
Blogger Maria said...

hi --

i just wanted to say that i'm really grateful to you for putting yourself out there and stating your views in a public sphere. :) i know it can be an unsafe space, but it's very brave of you to venture into it. i don't always agree with you, but you ALWAYS make me think.

-- maria v.

5/15/2006 11:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Jay said...

To reply the anonymous above me, I wouldn't mind a "who's who in Asian America" for books and plays. I don't think I can be the one to do it, though, because I'm not majored in AA studies...

And then, in a complete 180, remember when you asked about Kingston's findings (and thus Okihiro's) being subject to criticism? I found a nice discourse by an actual Chinese professor: http://www.kuixing.panopticonasia.com/Zhao.html Frank Chin originally criticised Kingston (and Tan and Hwang as well, but the most prominent was the criticism of Kingston) but Zhao criticises Chin for the same things Chin accuses Kingston of. It's an interesting essay to say the least, and it's done by somebody who actually knows the original Chinese culture. This is the most important paragraph:

As a result, to secure equal status with white women for Chinese American women, Maxine Hong Kingston needs to rewrite Chinese stories from a Euramerican feminist perspective to endow Chinese American women with a modern (read as Western/American) feminist sensibility; to counter the effeminate images of Chinese American men, Frank Chin must reinterpret a heroic tradition for Chinese America in line with rugged individualism. To mark the difference, Kingston retrieves the story of Mu Lan to reinvent a feminist tradition in Chinese America; to draw a distinction, while Frank Chin reclaims Kwan Kung and a Chinese American heroic tradition.

I'm not sure either of the two writers accomplished the goals that Zhao proclaims they set out to do.

5/15/2006 11:58:00 PM  
Blogger James said...

"You along with your supporters have psychological issues with asian men. I see it in your rants against asian men. If you had no issues you wouldn't be so obsessed about us “DAC”. Like that uncle tom said, “Get over it.”" - An Anonymous.

(Man it wouldn't hurt some of you guys to use the Other feature when leaving comments so the rest of us can tell you apart!)

I'll be up front: the problem for the recent detractors of this blog, the DAC's who equate racial solidarity with enforced Asian/ Asian American female political silence, is that no one really cares about personal dating problems. The notion that one must fuck within their race to have their intellectual products on race issues considered viable by their race sounds ludicrous, and no one with reason can support such a fanatic control mechanism. But it's interesting that anyone would be "obsessed" with a DAC in the midst. I've always believed that quite the opposite was true, that no one cared if some Asian men were upset about interracial dating, and that indifference to Asian men and emasculation stereotypes was part of the problem.

But to be honest, I'm done. I'm tired of reading informative, reasoned, heartfelt mini-essays on one woman's sociopolitical history just to find that her detractors are those who either don't read her work because of their assumptions of who she dates, or dislike her work because she does not subjugate her opinions to their agendas. Honestly, I'm done being asked to care about the poor Asian/ Asian American man's sex life. Really. Hardworking, clean, respectable men of all backgrounds have no problem dating, and Asian men are no exception.

The whiny retorts by some DAC's that Whitey steals all the Asian girls drips with unchallenged sexism, and until that stuff is challenged by the Asian American community, the DAC argument will sound just as hypocritical as the slaveowning Founding Fathers' protests over freedom and liberty. You can't read some of the radical anger from DAC's at ModelMinority.com without nearly throwing up over the psychotic sexism.

People who want to deny other people's free choice and intellect cannot talk about how oppressed they are by stereotypes and prejudice.

5/16/2006 06:42:00 AM  
Anonymous gatamala said...

good God will the old' race or gender dichotomy ever end? These guys fail to see a woman as an independent entity. Only as an extension of themselves. The vitriol and sense of entitlement/possession in these commens are frightening. And of course one of the anonymous asks "Are you adopted" -- as if the only reason you have this mindset is b/c you weren't raised by Asian parents.

These anonymous are proving your point by their responses. Denying your understanding of marginalization (by ANY group) by marginalizing you!

Jenn don't stop writing about the totality of your personal experiences as an Asianwoman.

5/16/2006 09:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Jay said...

Sigh... I think that the people in the community are polarized because they're listening to the most extreme rhetoric on both "sides"... I'm imagining this line, where "all AsAm men are DACs don't deserve to be heard" are on one side of the debate, and "all AsAm women are racist and don't deserve to be heard" (not exactly the words I want, but that's my interpretation of the arguments against that "side") are on the other. It's compounded by people thinking they personally are the ones being slighted when that may not be the case at all.

By the way, I don't mind Jenn's writing even when I don't agree with it all the time. Jenn picked "Unbound Feet" as an advocate of community building, but my opinion is that "Who I am and Who We Be" as a better one, because it tries to bring similarities together.

James, if you value your sanity, please stop going to modelminority's user forums. I don't even have an account there, but their past performance, especially with regards to people like Eric Byler, who created Charlotte Sometimes (he's talked about his experiences with that website in interviews), and Americanese, both of which have won awards (Charlotte Sometimes won best supporting actress at Indie Spirit and Americanese won SXSW's Jury Prize, I believe.)

5/16/2006 01:24:00 PM  
Blogger Rahul Nirmal said...

Hi. I just wanted to let you know that I fully support you 100% on your otaku comments and your disgust at white otakus and Japanophiles as well. In fact, I had always thought only I shared those views.

Fuck all of those immature loser white otakus and Japanophiles that bashed you, just want to let you know that I am one of your supporters, YOU ROCK!

Also, would you consider south asians as "asian"? Everytime I hear "asian", people only think of east asians only, some east asians have even told me that Indians (which I am), can't even be considered asian. Idiotic, but whatever.

Anyways, you rock and please keep on blogging and fuck all the white otakus and Japanophiles! : )

5/16/2006 02:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

woah, I think we're all letting ourselves getting a little too obsessed about one particular portion of the arguments here. I've been following this line of arguments for a while now and it's just a lot of mud slinging going back and forth.

Here's the bottom line from my own perspective: (no I don't have an account, you'll just have to trust I'm a different anonymous cuz I don't need another blog account)

I don't care who she dates, or the number of the asian men she's dated in the past. That's her own business. As an AM, I don't really care because honestly, I have no romantic interest in her anyway.

But I do have a problem with her painting a picture that AMs are in generally chauvinistic pigs who are OCD about controlling who some random girl dates, and basically dismissing every single response from an AM as a "Typical DAC response". (But that's hardly her whole argument, I'd like to think.) At the same time, I also have issues with some of the guys here trying to use her own personal dating life as a point of argument.

Let's face it, guys, you don't really care who she dates. You're upset that she's basically tearing into AMs in general and making seems like AMs are not worth the same as their other race counterparts. This goes beyond just dating (although to say that dating is no biggy at all is a little dismissive I think.), it's just the overall image that the AM must endure. The problem here is just as James said, people don't give two shits about it, and I cannot think of any worse enemy to social change than apathy.

Jen, on the other hand, is upset that people are basically just throw mud at her instead of trying to tackle the argument itself. She's upset that people are not addressing her post as whole and are just obsessing about details of her life.

It goes both ways, Jen basically dismisses all of those criticisms as DAC responses and then proceeds to declare that the respondants have responded because they are sexist male chauvinists who are trying to run against the feminist movements. The allged DACs on the other hand basically think that she's only saying all of this as some kind of ego stroking exercise because she keeps on putting down Asian culture and placnig it in a vacuum environment.

But I think we can at least all agree, sexism is bad, reverse sexism is bad, double standards are bad, and freedom of choice is a great great thing.

5/16/2006 04:33:00 PM  
Anonymous lycheng said...

Jenn,

I am an Asian American man who hates misogynists. I want to assure you that most Asian men that I know would not resort to the character assassination that you've experienced.

I, like you, am terribly troubled by the hateful Asian men who can only take pride in "their race" and "their manliness" by demeaning and oppressing women. This is not how I was taught to treat human beings, let alone women.

The fact is both Asian Men and Asian Women have been at the short end of the racist stick. I have not read all of your writings, but much of your cultural appropriation posts make sense to me. I suspect it many Asian Americans agree with you regardless of gender.

Yet, when it comes to gender relations between AA men and AA women, somehow we forget about the common enemy we ALL face.

Of course, you have every right to fight back against the weight of Asian male patriarchy. However, I must point out that, because you don't live in Asia, your fight will not be perceived in the same way if you lived in Asia. That's because the images of oppressive Asian men has been culturally misappropriated by Whites, in their attempt to portray Asian men as a menace to White society.

Perhaps a positive dialog can start with an acknowledgement on your part that Asian men have a right to feel, for the lack of a better word, "betrayed", when you start to bash Asian men based on patriarchic aspects of our Asian heritage.

In the same vein, I freely acknowledge that Asian women have been oppressed by traditional Asian societies. However, I would add that there's nothing inherent in Asian culture that prevents an evolution away from a patriarchic society.

Even in the context of Confucianism, I strongly believe Asian societies can be just as sympathetic to the female perspective. I can provide references for this if you'd like.

I will end by saying that I hope a constructive dialog can take place from this point on. I will make a sincere attempt at understanding your point of view, in the hopes that you do the same.

Since I first encountered your blog via the Fighting 44's forum, I will post my comments there as well.

Respectfully,
lycheng

5/16/2006 10:29:00 PM  
Blogger phillyjay said...

Ok, I reread this post and the unbound feet post.And I looked really hard to find where she painted asian men as a group or at least the majority as sexist pigs.And.....I found nothing.Can any of the anonymous posters help me out here?

5/17/2006 06:35:00 AM  
Blogger phillyjay said...

I mean really, I read the 44 forum and I fail to see how she's bashing asians or to be more specific, asian men.

5/17/2006 06:37:00 AM  
Blogger Jenn said...

philly -- i'm not. i specifically refer to "DAC"s as a distinct group from all Asian/Asian American men and end the post on a positive note that most Asian American men are willing to start dialogue with Asian American Women.

The only POSSIBLE "bashing" is that I say that Asian American men benefit from sexism. Which is true -- men DO benefit from sexism (just as White people benefit from racism, rich people benefit from classism, etc...), and within our community, Asian American Men benefit from the sexism against Asian American Women. That's not "bashing" if I'm addressing the problem and seeking a solution.

I think it only be construed as bashing if one expects Asian American Women to sweep sexism under the rug in order to benefit our male counterparts and paint them as 100% faultless.

5/17/2006 02:53:00 PM  
Blogger Jenn said...

"James, if you value your sanity, please stop going to modelminority's user forums. I don't even have an account there, but their past performance, especially with regards to people like Eric Byler, who created Charlotte Sometimes (he's talked about his experiences with that website in interviews), and Americanese, both of which have won awards (Charlotte Sometimes won best supporting actress at Indie Spirit and Americanese won SXSW's Jury Prize, I believe.)"

Did MM bash Byler? Did I miss this?

5/17/2006 02:54:00 PM  
Anonymous B the student said...

Jenn,

I must say I am impressed with the response your blog is getting from the fighting 44s (of which I am a member). I hope you do respond to the points seoulbrotherno1 and lyncheng discuss in their posts to you because they bring up very valid points that I think would do not only you but the asian american/canadian community as a whole some good to contemplate (not necessarily agree with).

One thing I really think you and the fighting 44s agree with is the need for the Asian American community to build unity and trust and to recognize the pain and struggles with in the community. I stress this because I think both the 44s and your blog originate from the same place: the struggles growing up as a minority, specifically as an asian minority.

I think your blog serves an important function within the Asian american/canadian community, and hope for your continued presence and success. But I ask, as you have asked your readers when you argue the case of the Asian-american/canadian woman, that you also take into consideration the issues that face your Asian-American/Canadian brothers: a Western media that either portrays them as nerds, asexual kung fu masters, villains, or doesn't portray them at all, living in a society where one's penis size is "scientifically" asserted to be less than average (which is a false "scientific" claims and somehow automatically means one has a small penis), having Bruce Lee (R.I.P.) as the only Asian role model available while growing up, and the list goes on. I'll be interested to see how you tackle these problems that affect the Asian american/canadian community.

And just as I ask you to consider the struggles of your Asian brothers, the 44s (at least the sane ones. i do admit we do have some crazies.) are more than open to discussing the struggles of Asian-american/canadian sisters. The 44s deplore the exotification of Asian women by the Western media, acknowledge the historical truth of patriarchy that has affected Asian sisters (but also keep in perspective the role of patriarchy in our current society and in other developed societies as well), demand that more Asian sisters stand the fuck up for themselves and for the community they represent. I sincerely hope the dialogue between the 44s and you continues, and wish for a positive outcome.

The fighting 44s is not about creating division within the Asian-american community, it's not about Asian-American men vs. Asian-American women but about pain, struggles, and vision of the community as a whole. We need more sisters like you on the board, well thought out and open to discourse. the 44s isn't the villain it's made out to be.

So keep on repping and standing the fuck up; your voice is being heard and engaged with. We just ask that you do us the same courtesy.

Best wishes,
B the student

5/17/2006 04:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I freely acknowledge that Asian women have been oppressed by traditional Asian societies. However, I would add that there's nothing inherent in Asian culture that prevents an evolution away from a patriarchic society...Even in the context of Confucianism, I strongly believe Asian societies can be just as sympathetic to the female perspective. I can provide references for this if you'd like."

Let's not talk about hypotheticals. There is very little movement in this direction.

"But I ask, as you have asked your readers when you argue the case of the Asian-american/canadian woman, that you also take into consideration the issues that face your Asian-American/Canadian brothers: a Western media that either portrays them as nerds, asexual kung fu masters, villains, or doesn't portray them at all, living in a society where one's penis size is "scientifically" asserted to be less than average (which is a false "scientific" claims and somehow automatically means one has a small penis), having Bruce Lee (R.I.P.) as the only Asian role model available while growing up, and the list goes on."

If you've read this blog for a while, she covers this alot, in fact, alot more than women's issues. But when she brings up women's issues, it gets attacked.

5/17/2006 04:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't have time to read all these comments but this is outrageous.

It's is tantamount to saying you can't be a feminist unless you're a lesbian. Even Laura Bush said she was a feminist and she is married to a man. It's like saying if you're a feminist you have to mainly hang out with feminists and alot of feminists have friends who are mostly men. It's personality and sensibility that are more inmportant than gender, race, class or sexuality.

Men still don't get it. They missed the entire argument that Asian America should support both men and women which means fighting racism and sexism, classism and homophobia at the same time.

If the feminist blogosphere can take the very admirable step in the last several months to confront and work on its racism can Asian America do the same and "be man enough" to finally confront and work on its sexism?

5/17/2006 04:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Jay said...

If you've read this blog for a while, she covers this alot, in fact, alot more than women's issues. But when she brings up women's issues, it gets attacked.

I think that's the problem. Her site only got really popular when she brought up the issue of cultural appropriation and hordes of white otakus started attacking her, so most people never bothered to read further back than that.

Jenn, Byler's interview where he talks about MM is here: http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/asian/arts_culture_media/archives/byler_charlotte_sometimes_hapas.asp

5/17/2006 06:37:00 PM  
Anonymous tekanji said...

As others have pointed out, Jenn does talk about these issues. However, I fail to see how it's her responsibility to do so. She is an AAW, not an AAM, and therefore it's logical that she would speak more on her experiences because that is likely what resonates most with her. Attacking her because she isn't giving proper airtime to problems that AAM face is just ridiculous. And -- dare I say it? -- sexist.

5/17/2006 07:21:00 PM  
Anonymous hf said...

Yeah, this would piss me off too. It stinks that you have to see guys (I assume) attack you because someone else rejected them.

So, what happened to your website? Suddenly I see this long sidebar to the right blocking part of your posts, and Unbound Feet had text streching off the screen. I seem to recall your site working in Firefox.

5/17/2006 07:28:00 PM  
Blogger James said...

As for the technical stuff.... long links can distort the pages, and people who post Anonymous can use the "Other" button when commenting to leave their names without a Blogger account.

As to the comments, I just wish that people who disliked Jenn's stance against DAC's could point to actual quotes of hers that characterize all Asian/ Asian American men as "chauvinistic pigs who are OCD about controlling who some random girl dates, and basically dismissing every single response from an AM as a "Typical DAC response"" as one articulate Anon summarized. Where does she apply the DAC phenomena to all Asian men?

Further, why should Asian male emasculation emerge in every discussion of Asian American politics? In the Unbound Feet post, I thought the major point was the degradation of Asian American politics by some radical strains of Asian American sexism? Why should any speaker on such a topic give lip service to Western deconstruction of Asian American masculinity? It's been done.

Don't we already know that stuff after Sixteen Candles and Jackie Chan's entire career?

5/17/2006 09:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

tekanji,

That's what I see too. She didn't say anything sexist in this post or the one about sexism. She certainly didn't say anything "oppressive" as one Asian male put it, but her arguments get labeled as oppressive. Women and feminists criticize sexism but:

Criticism does not equal sexism. Male privilege does, however, equal thinking that criticism is sexism.

Asian males are very used to male privilege especially in their families and this makes them think criticism of sexism is oppressive.

Every Asian male comment on these two threads were sexist but they don't see it.

5/17/2006 09:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Including the so-called moderate comment above which essentially told her to what to do.

If all the Asian male comments were sexist, this perpetuates a stereotype they are trying to counter. A stereotype they say isn't true. Can the whites or other non-Asians see a problem here?

5/17/2006 09:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If all the Asian male comments were sexist, this perpetuates a stereotype they are trying to counter. A stereotype they say isn't true. Can the whites or other non-Asians see a problem here?"

That is most racist piece of crap I've ever read. You are a racist. Plain and simple. We are not trying to counter any stereotypes here. We are defending ourselves against a lady who is demonizing asian men, OK? You hit us, we hit you. simple as that.

James,
you are a black man dating an asian girl. Encouraging her to reject her own kind by demonizing asian men with her "unbounded feet" and probbably encouraging the obvious hatred she has towards asian men. Then you ask us why do asian men talk about being emasculated all the time? man, this is crazy.

5/17/2006 10:38:00 PM  
Blogger James said...

"James, you are a black man dating an asian girl. Encouraging her to reject her own kind by demonizing asian men with her "unbounded feet" and probbably encouraging the obvious hatred she has towards asian men. Then you ask us why do asian men talk about being emasculated all the time? man, this is crazy." - Anonymous

Anonymous, you provide a useful example to display why random aspersions on other people's relationships do not make sense in political discussion. You have no way to determine what my relationship with Jenn is like. None. To assume that I encourage anyone to reject their people and demonize Asian men is a serious insult.

That insult also exposes your unbelievable sexism, since you assume that I had anything to do with the Unbounded Feet post, that male influence must be behind a woman's words in order to derive any meaning, and that you can blame me for my girlfriend's thoughts! Asshole! Like she couldn't possibly come to her own conclusions about her relationship with her people?

Anon, go fuck yourself.

Further, Asian men don't talk about being emasculated all the time, DAC's do. DAC's allow other people to define them, and then reject the stereotypical definitions in the weakest, most passive manners possible.

And Asian men don't need an internet pep talk to feel better about themselves. Get over your own crazy before you discuss writing you don't understand.

5/17/2006 11:00:00 PM  
Blogger phillyjay said...

"James,
you are a black man dating an asian girl. Encouraging her to reject her own kind by demonizing asian men with her "unbounded feet" and probbably encouraging the obvious hatred she has towards asian men. Then you ask us why do asian men talk about being emasculated all the time? man, this is crazy."

Crazy is right.I can't believe you're saying all of these things.This discussion went from jenn slamming asian men, and now to james teaching her to hate her own kind???!!??What the hell are you guys smoking????

5/17/2006 11:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Hattie said...

I knew Frank Chin when he was but a pimply youth and stoner.
I saw him in Portland a few years ago when he came up to participate in a panel discussion. He did not remember me, and I certainly would not have recognized him but for his celebrity.
When another panel member mentioned Amy Tan he drew his finger across his throat. He hates her, I guess.
What I am wondering is why Asian Americans seem to be blocked in their access to the cultural mainstream. Does the attitude of Chin and those who agree with him have something to do with this? It's a complex matter, for sure, and as an outsider to the Asian community, I'm very puzzled about what's going on.

5/18/2006 02:43:00 AM  
Anonymous anotherjames said...

Gotta respect what my fellow James above said. I can't say that my response would have been nearly as reasonable if I were put in the same situation.

5/18/2006 02:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Elliott said...

people, Jenn's not dating an asian guy, get over it. the more we AAMs try to focus on that aspect of her, the more it hurts any argument we can possibly make. Let it go already. Everybody here is so damn bullheaded. Sheesh.

5/18/2006 09:59:00 AM  
Blogger Sheelzebub said...

Jenn, you rock.

5/18/2006 10:34:00 AM  
Anonymous B the student said...

i admit i've only really browsed this blog and focused on the topics being brought up at 44s, so i am unfamiliar with most of Jenn's writings. I'll try to take some time to read through her postings once school let's out for the summer.

in response to tekanji, you make excellent points but i want to address your concern about Jenn's responsibility for discussing all the issues (as she apparently does). If her purpose (as i understand it) is to create a collective narrative for the AA community then yes, there is a certain amount of responsibility she is taking up in regards to AA men. Of course, as you have mentioned, it shouldn't be the focus of her blogs, but it should not be marginalized either (and as others have pointed out to me she does apparently discuss these issues). Equally so, we at the 44s also have a responsiblity to discuss, contemplate, and empathize the issues that face AAwomen.

We make mistakes and she'll probably slip to, and i think it's important that we call each other out on the bullshit and instead of being defensive, recognize our faults and move on. The Asian american community as a whole is marginalized and disenfranchised for various reasons, including significant internal ones. That's why I think it's important to engage in dialogue, and I feel a big opportunity will be missed if Jenn simply dismisses my fellow 44s seoulbrotherno1 and lyncheng's posts as "DAC" attacks. They are challenges to understand each other and the world we all live in.

Again, I apologize for not being totally informed on Jenn's writings. But please consider what my two fellow 44s have written, not as attacks, but as an invitation to dialogue.

B the student

5/18/2006 01:17:00 PM  
Blogger Jenn said...

B, I absolutely agree that we need to hear the narrative of the Asian American Man. Disenfranchisement is definitely a problem that is faced by AAMs and we need to know how that affects our community as a whole.

That being said, I don't feel fully qualified to introduce the disenfranchisement issue on my blog. I'm an AAW, not an AAM, so why is there an expectation that I should keep quiet about my own identity in favour of the AAM? I personally respect and listen to AAM -- why can they not seem to do the same when it comes to women and consider that some of their outlooks (particularly those described by the DAC mentality) contribute to the sexism that we face?

5/18/2006 01:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are defending ourselves against a lady who is demonizing asian men, OK? You hit us, we hit you. simple as that.

I'm a single Native American female (just so you know I don't have any horses in this race). She's NOT demonizing you. However, it does make me wonder about your ability to read and process information.

I can see what she's saying, and it's not about *ALL* Asian American men. Why can't you see that?

And dating within race -- it doesn't matter in the end what color the person you love happens to be. What matters is the love between you. If Asian American women are being subjected to the kind of vilification and rhetoric that Jenn is being subjected to here, I have no doubts as to why Asian American women might choose men of other heritage.

5/18/2006 02:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If all the Asian male comments were sexist, this perpetuates a stereotype they are trying to counter. A stereotype they say isn't true. Can the whites or other non-Asians see a problem here?"

"That is most racist piece of crap I've ever read. You are a racist. Plain and simple. We are not trying to counter any stereotypes here. We are defending ourselves against a lady who is demonizing asian men, OK? You hit us, we hit you. simple as that."

"She's NOT demonizing you. However, it does make me wonder about your ability to read and process information."

Pointing out sexism is not racist. Why are you here to defend DACs? Shouldn't DACs be demonized? Why would you defend DACs? Because you're sexist? When it's pointed out you're sexist, I'm racist?

Some of you are retarded.

5/18/2006 06:29:00 PM  
Anonymous tekanji said...

B: My problem with the word "responsibility" is that it implies an obligation. This particular thread started because she spoke out against the kind of AAM who believes that AAW have an obligation to date him. And, of course, those same kind of men came here in the comments to argue that she has an obligation to not only blog about AAM issues, but to do it to their satisfaction.

Entitlement is the problem here -- none of us are entitled to Jenn, or her thoughts, or her time. The only obligation she has here is to post what she wants to post, how she wants to post. I'm not saying that I always agree with her, or that I'm not upset if we don't see eye-to-eye on some issues. I've had it out with her on a few threads, but I would never suggest that she post what I want because she's obligated to talk about women's experiences, and I feel excluded because I'm white. It's absurd. If I want to discuss issues of feminism that don't relate to AA experiences, then I go to a blog that focuses on a different kind of intersection. Simple as that.

But the DACs on this thread aren't really interested in fairness, as they've shown in their repeated personal attacks on Jenn. They are upset because their control has been threatened, and because other AAW might read what Jenn has written, might read what they have written, and come to the same conclusion: it's okay to be an Asian woman who's also a feminist.

5/18/2006 07:10:00 PM  
Anonymous sickofhypocrites said...

Tekanji: your ability to read minds (and, ultimately, project your own insecurity in the form of partisan accusations and attacks) is simply amazing. You should do right-wing talk radio: you'd be right at home in style, if not substance.

5/18/2006 07:47:00 PM  
Blogger Jenn said...

"I'm not saying that I always agree with her, or that I'm not upset if we don't see eye-to-eye on some issues. I've had it out with her on a few threads, but I would never suggest that she post what I want because she's obligated to talk about women's experiences, and I feel excluded because I'm white. It's absurd."

And this is the kind of dialogue starting and community building that I think is appropriate. Tekanji and I often come at odds (she is definitely a much more learned and wise feminist, although sometimes we disagree on our interpretations of feminism and find ourselves butting heads) -- but this doesn't mean that we disregard or disrespect one another's opinions or do not appreciate the disagreement.

If such dialogue and mutual respect despite differences of identities is possible within the feminist community, why does it seem to be problematic here, where one side of the coin (some AAMs on this thread)seems reluctant to address the sincerity of another identity within the community (AAW)?

We don't have to agree. We don't have to come to some Koombayah-style compromise. We just have to listen to one another. As I've said before, I'm willing to listen to AAM -- I just can't ambassador emasculation issues. And I applaud the AAM willing to listen to AAW -- but the DACs seem to not want to hear that.

Sickofhypocrites, thank you for at least offering a s/n by which we can identify you. Why are you lashing out at tekanji? Your point is lost amidst the partisan mumbo-jumbo. Sufficed to say that if I were characterizing anyone as right-wing talk radio, tekanji might very well be the last person who would come to mind. Your comment certainly does little to detract from her point. Ad hominem attacks are unappreciated -- please clarify why you disagree with tekanji.

5/18/2006 07:55:00 PM  
Anonymous tekanji said...

I'm sorry to burst your little bubble, sickofhypocrites, but my post was neither hypocritcal nor an example of illogical mind reading. With fodder like the following, I hardly have to be a mind reader to come to the conclusions I did.

Exhibit A: You are playing to the model minority stereotype that your social network and mate is forcing on you.

Our first anonymouse espouses the entitlement view when it comes to the obligation of Jenn to date an AAM. Since she is currently in a relationship with James, a black man, it therefore must follow that he is "forcing" a social network on her. Later on another anonymouse (the same one? who knows?) pretty much flat out says that he believes that James is controlling Jenn's thoughts.

Since you're sick of hypocrites, you should easily be able to spot the hypocrisy in this one: the anonymouse in question is angry not because Jenn's thoughts are supposedly controlled by a man, but because they're controled by a man of the wrong ethnic background.

Exhibit B: Jeez, is it so hard to *support* the men and their concerns for once, instead of merely ranting and raving against sexism and misogyny - as if THAT solely defines the canon? I suppose that would take away from your power hungry agenda.

This anonymouse is angry because Jenn doesn't "support the [AA] men and their concerns." No mind reading here, either.

Since the men here are defending the DACs that have attacked Jenn personally by using personal attacks, I think I'm pretty safe in assuming that they, too, are DACs. Still not finding any mind reading going on.

Finally, my conclusion is not mind reading either, it's a logical conclusion from the arguments that I've postulated. The DAC behaviour pattern is an abusive one (as evidenced by the ad homs and the sense of entitlement and assumption that Jenn has to be controlled by someone). Ergo, since this is the exact kind of behaviour an abusive person engages in when hir's control is threatened, it can't be considered "mind reading" for me to state that a lot of the anger being directed at Jenn is due to the fact that she is completely out of the control of the DACs, and furthermore advocating for other women to thusly see themselves as people (hence where the feminism part comes in).

5/19/2006 03:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My goodness, are Asian Americans blind? Can they not see the sexism in these comments? Can they speak out more, stop coddling this sexism, call it what it is, so it can stop? This denial is in our families, our culture, our men and women and it hurts women the most but most of all, it hurts our entire community. Women, speak out before it's too late.

5/19/2006 04:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was never called otaku and I never called myself otaku, even though If I had it would be a really nice way of backing up all your world views, Jenn.
To call me an Otaku is akin to the shallow generalisations and stereotypes you were complaining about in the first place.

And, while you're on the topice of being PC about people's sexuality I'd also like you to address the homophobia inherent in your calling me 'gayla' as an insult in that article.

ou expect very high standards in other people, and I think that means you need to check yourself even harder than you check them. If you want to keep playing this role you play of being holy in your sensibility.

-Gav

5/19/2006 06:54:00 AM  
Blogger Jenn said...

"And, while you're on the topice of being PC about people's sexuality I'd also like you to address the homophobia inherent in your calling me 'gayla' as an insult in that article."

... I called you 'gayla' cuz I misread your screen-name. "v" and "y" are very similar looking letters when you're skimming a bunch of comments including ad hominem attacks against you. I actually didn't even notice the possibility of that being in any way associated with "gay" until you just brought it up.

It was only when the LJ upon which you called me a "cunt" pointed out that you were "gavla" that I noticed my original mis-reading.

5/19/2006 12:07:00 PM  
Blogger James said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5/19/2006 12:40:00 PM  
Blogger James said...

Gavla, you read a blog post and called Jenn a "cunt" afterwards. I don't believe you can give anyone pointers on proper etiquette during political discourse.

Further, it's really sophomoric to assume that any inclusion of the word gay in something is automatically an insult. Is you masculinity that shaky? Perhaps you should lie down and stop wasting other's time with these weak arguments of yours.

Man, so many people saw themselves in this post and still can't handle the truth.

5/19/2006 12:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For those of you only here to defend DACs, gav is one of the white racists in the post about cultural appropriation.

The smoking gun is right here in these comments and in the comments of the “Unbound Feet” post.

Women who don’t see the sexism in these comments, who don’t have a problem with the sexism in these comments or who don’t speak out against the sexism in these comments perpetuate the stereotype of the Asian female as passive, submissive, subservient and silent that feeds into Asiaphilic fantasies. My sense of Asian American forums is that they perpetuate the stereotypes of Asian men and women we are so much against.

Of course, Asian women should speak out against all political injustices such as racism, sexism, classism, homophobia, war, violence, environmental degradation, etc. etc. etc. Some of us already do. We need more Asian female political bloggers. I can think of two, Reappropriate and Shailja Patel (I wish her feed worked so it were easier to read).

5/19/2006 06:09:00 PM  
Blogger NursePam said...

I'm happy to see that you are willing to continue putting yourself out there Jenn. You force people to bump up against their own bias. It's why some of them react so strongly.

Your path is not easy but it is necessary that someone take it.

5/20/2006 10:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Your path is not easy but it is necessary that someone take it."

Seems to me that the harder road to take is to fight sexism in ones own race and community, rather than running to another community and the majority race that have been changed by women of that community and race many years ago.

Idealistic words are a red herring.

5/20/2006 11:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see, it moved you enough to blog a paragraph about it, but you'd only skimmed over it and misread the name?
When your original message was to look deeper into thing?
So can you see James, why I assumed this was not a mistake?
And if it's not a mistake, it's a homophobic insult, I know what one of those is.
And I didn't think Jenn was homophobic, but just that she was assuming that it would hurt and rile me, The general state of Internet bullies, which she thought I was at the time, being the macho insecure sort.
It wasn't. Had it been, it would have been a lapse in her values. A forgiveable lapse, but one that should be acknowledged.
But I'm not any more ashamed of my sexuality than Jenn is actually ashamed of her genitals, we're both just standing up for the principal of the thing, so don't write me off as insecure any more than you'd tolerate me writing her off as insecure.

I'm just about through trying to defend myself, but I didn't make any posts in the unbound feet thing.
I apologised for my sexist comment after a close friend of mine helped me understand how it was so hurtful, and with just about the same stroke of the brush, how it hurts to get yr culture carelessly appropriated.
I took my original stance as a kind of devil's advocate with confidence that my friends would change my stance.
And they did.
It was a post on a close friends journal, not a press release of my intentions.
I've learned a lot from the whole thing, so I suppose now that the hurt is behind, I'm glad that Jenn made such a militant rant 'cause that's what it took.
I'm an activist, but not a protestor. Blind 'againsting' seems futile to me, but now that this is happening, I'm reconsidering, cause 'I'm angry and I"m not gonna take it' educated this little black duck.

And anybody here who is still demonizing me just doesn't know the full story.

And I think that's a fault that's got parallels to the faults of the otaku that united them in the first place.

-Gav

5/24/2006 05:37:00 AM  
Blogger Cattygurl said...

Jenn,

I think it's important that asian women speak out. Being outspoken means you're always half a step away from a barrel of criticisms.

I also agree that one's partner does not DEFINE who they are (or shouldn't anyway). I really despise the attitude that asian-americans dating a non-asian automatically forfeits their right to have an opinion about asian-american topics. That's bullshit, plain and simple.

5/25/2006 02:18:00 PM  
Blogger Jenn said...

"I see, it moved you enough to blog a paragraph about it, but you'd only skimmed over it and misread the name?
When your original message was to look deeper into thing?
So can you see James, why I assumed this was not a mistake?
And if it's not a mistake, it's a homophobic insult, I know what one of those is.
And I didn't think Jenn was homophobic, but just that she was assuming that it would hurt and rile me, The general state of Internet bullies, which she thought I was at the time, being the macho insecure sort.
It wasn't. Had it been, it would have been a lapse in her values. A forgiveable lapse, but one that should be acknowledged."

Listen. This is stupid. I misread your name because I skimmed the comments very quickly, read your comment about my being a "cunt" and immediately closed the window. I thought I had remembered your s/n and typed it as I recalled it, without bothering to re-read your ad hominem comment. Later in that thread, you also suggested that I should be killed except that I, being a "cunt", might deny another man an orgasm. Although I didn't intend any moronic homophobic attacks, in light of that treatment, why should I have respected you enough to fact-check your s/n and expose myself to more of your hatred?

Honestly, if you don't believe me, it's not really my problem. All I know is that only a pretty puerile mind would consider a typo in which the word "gay" is included in a s/n could be considered an insult. Sufficed to say, I'm not that immature; I didn't even notice the word "gay" in that typo until you pointed it out in this comment thread.

Trust me, gavla, if I wanted to insult you, you would know it. You wouldn't have questions about my intentions as you do in this thread.

And this is all a strawman anyways. I'm not getting into a pissing match over this invented argument when I've already stated it was a misreading and a typo. You are obviously shying away from addressing the fact that you originally called me a "cunt". Deal with that.

5/25/2006 04:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you just skim over that as well and miss half of my comment?
I acknowledged that you made a typo, but asked for understanding in why I would interpret it as not a mistake.

It's recorded in some sort of mixed up way on Shaula's lj, and I just wrote about it then : I am dealing very intently with calling you that and I don't use the word any more!
Go back to the page and find my apology!

Probably as a woman yr protected from it or where you live it's not the same, but where I come from there's gay insults like 'gayla' brandied about all the time at people like me, and it may be peurile, but if that's the intention of when people say it, it's their peurility and not mine that I've learned to react to.

5/26/2006 04:47:00 AM  
Blogger Sheelzebub said...

What apology was this, Gavla? Where you said sorry and then went on to defend the use of the word, said you sort of rethought the vileness of the word, but then wanted to know when you could use it.

It's a fucking slur. And it does strike me as telling that you suddenly get all bent about Jenn misspelling your name when you gave a backhanded non-apology for using a pretty vile misogynist slur. Not a smokescreen at all, that.

5/26/2006 11:04:00 AM  
Blogger Jenn said...

Gavla, your comments as recorded on Shaula's LJ are as follows:

"This person is a cunt!"

...

"The word 'cunt' is a very very strong part of my own disenfranchised counterculture.
It's the only word we shockrockers can use to offend anyone any more.
That's why, when I'm angry beyond reasonable argument I sometimes want to reach for the rudest word on the shelf.

That's what the word means to me, and I was under the impression that in our fucking fuck a fucking sentence culture it was well removed from any sexist connontations."

...

(my favourite)

"She is a cunt and by that I mean that what she says and thinks and does are negligable, but, like everybody everywhere, perhaps she could be kept alive as nothing but a set of genitals in case somebody somewhere finds it useful that she be laid out for the fucking with the result that that person is given an orgasm.

You know, I'd just say 'she should die' but I could somewhere sometime be costing someone a top orgasm, so I can't justify it.
:)"

...

"OK now I get it.

Fuckhole is my new word.
Nice and unisex."

...

"Now I get it and I'm sorry.

But when I use 'Cunt' out of the blue, that's not what I mean at all.

As with all insults, there's an invisible mental stage between what the insult means (reducing it to a degree of severity), and the fact that you are moved to use it by the fact that the insultee has so agitated you.
In this case it was her cruelty.
And in my everyday vernacular, Cunt is just a form of cruel which if I think about it probably goes Jerk; Prick; Arsehole; Fuck; Cunt.

And I maintain that in ten years the connection will be gone and the ears densensitisied and it won't mean that any more.

And I think that if you interpret Cunt as used everyday in this academic way, you're going to be misreading what a lot of people mean.

Nobody explained this to me in my 23 years of life and probably seven of cunt usage, they just expected me to understand anyway.
Which I think reappropriate crew are very guilty of."


.
. (end the quoting, begin Jenn talking)
.

A) You should've known better. It's a derogatory word in which you objectify a woman down to her gentilia in a way that disrespects her and her intellect. How you could claim ignorance is beyond me.

B)I've ransacked the rest of the comments for your supposed "apology" and see none. Certainly no apology that then made its way to this blog. Apologizing to your friends is one thing: if you want to apologize, try apologizing to the woman you actually dehumanized with your comments.

5/26/2006 01:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, it would be the comment in response to your own comment there:

"I'm sorry Jenn.
You were angry and I didn't get it and I lashed out.

But it's very hard being introduced to a new idea while at the same time trying to justify that idea coming from the mouth of someone who was mostly just lashing out, it complicated it a great deal.
I've had to deal with about six issues at the same time here : My lack of understanding of someone who's genuinley disempowered, Empathising with someone who comes from a very different place in the world to myself, understanding my own power, the issue of it being okay to hate the hater, and some more.

My instinct latched to the fact that you are a thousand more times smarter and more eloquent than the asiaphiles you were attacking, and it set of my bully alarm.
And I have a big crusade against bullies, so that's what I could focus on.
But as it turns out they have power over you.

Though I still feel sorry for them for growing up in a way and place that just makes them so blind..."

And If I go on to some sort of justification, it's 'cause I'd like for ya to understand what I was thinking at the time, not now.

And yeah, for an intellectual argument I'd like to know what yr thoughts would be on using the word against somebody who was genuinley a very, very, very bad egg. I'd like to hear thoughts on that one.

5/27/2006 11:33:00 PM  
Blogger James said...

"But it's very hard being introduced to a new idea while at the same time trying to justify that idea coming from the mouth of someone who was mostly just lashing out, it complicated it a great deal.
I've had to deal with about six issues at the same time here : My lack of understanding of someone who's genuinley disempowered, Empathising with someone who comes from a very different place in the world to myself, understanding my own power, the issue of it being okay to hate the hater, and some more.
" - Gavla (anonymous)

It's so hard, so hard to be White, isn't it? *sheds tear*

I'm so sick of this uninterrupted weakness from other so-called men! Asian American men, upset about the DAC complexes of their most radical members, diss Jenn in the most negative terms because they often refuse to challenge the sexism inherent in their community. White men, pissed over the Asiaphile complexes of their most pathetic members, slander Jenn in the most dehumanizing language possible because they refuse to recognize the racism inherent in their privilege. And after both groups are shown the errors in their perspectives, they cry, 'We didn't know... this is hard... cut us some slack... don't be too mad with us!'

To all DAC's, DAC defenders, DAC apologists, Asiaphiles, Asiaphile defenders, and Asiaphile apologists: You are the problem, not the solution. Real men do not whine.

I don't care how hard recognizing your personal misogyny may be - you don't have a choice.I don't care how hard speaking out about minority sexism is - you have to inform yourself, and others. I don't care how hard understanding your privilege may be, you have to try.

Respecting the humanity of other people may be difficult for some, but it is vital for all. The alternative promotes oppression through laziness, and cannot be tolerated.

This being said, Gavla, stop acting like a punk and move on. You allowed your hatred of women to overpower your rational mind, and you were publicly condemned. Gavla, you cannot reclaim your masculinity by begging for more time to recognize that your misogyny was and is immoral.

You only place yourself in the grand American tradition of stalling for time when a national majority recognizes the abject immorality of some minority oppression, just like every Southern slaveowner's son's son standing in the schoolhouse door to obstruct both American racial harmony and economic progress. It's 2006 Mr. Wallace, and we don't work for you.

Gavla, you can't reclaim your balls by whining about how hard it is to suddenly realize roughly forty years after the end of the American Civil Rights Movement that American communities exist that you don't understand, and that some people in those communities do not live to kiss your lily White ass.

Some of us don't think White folk are that important. Some of us never consider White people's feelings when articulating our communities' concerns. All of us think for ourselves as individuals, and can disagree without being disagreeable.

You have not shown such intellectual maturity, Gavla, and I'm tired of waiting for you to endure puberty. Grow up or get out.

5/28/2006 01:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think you are a hypocrite.
I think your assumption that I am from America is the very racial assumption that you preach against.
I think your narrow definitons of masculinity are the very sexism you preach against.
You preach that intention is irrelevant, but your ammunition in attacking people is the hatred you deduce from their actions through the most dubious home psychologies I've ever seen. I guess that it works, that you'll always be able to percieve a new enemy and keep on fighting.
Stew in your mindset for all I care, I suppose you must believe that it will get you somewhere, but from what I've deduced of the world, I think yr running a hollow race.
I think those balls of yours that you can't stop going on about and could be holding you back.
But you know what. It's hard to keep yrself on the straight and narrow and coming from a pure place, so I don't care. I'm glad of what you're preaching and I think you're spreading a lot of good stuff.
I got through my pride this month and I'm better for it. You don't believe it, but the people close to me do.
A little while ago I learned something from you. I am immature. I have much more of my life ahead of me then I have behind and loads of learning to do. If admitting that is weak then call me weak and balless because I think that's how you 'move on' as you put it.
I did learn something about privelage from this and it was from my sympathetic friends here that I did it, most certainally not from the hard love tree you're barking up.
I suspect your own pig headed ego, your own faith in your own maturity, may be blinding you to whatever journey you had to take next, 'cause we're all on a journey and if you're not you're wasting your time.
This is my philosophy. Yeah, it's picked and chosen from thinkers and preachers from all through time and all through the world, but that's the sort of place I grew up in, it comes from a real place inside me, and I think christianity, binge drinking, mortgages and holden commodores are silly anyway, so I looked elsewhere.
And I think from the very beginning this was a clash of philosophies. I agree with your political points, but disagree with the way you treat the people involved in it all.
But if you are still focusing on the details you are focusing on... Well... What I've been doing is, besides reclaiming my own pride, is to try and find some magic door in you people, some key to that magic moment of humanity when you suddenly empathise with the thing you abused.
It happened to me in this case.
And it's the stuff, man. It turns the world from being hoardes of people out to get you into fragile little things and it's hopeful and it's empowering and so long as left oriented people like everybody here should believe, it means that someday the light will win.
And if you want to keep demonizing me in this blog and having all yr readers come to this page and putting goatse in my livejournal, It's not going to bother me much.
I'm resigned now.
I'm against cunt, I'm aware of the possible pitfalls of cultural appropriation, I'm sorry for the abuse.
And I kind of always was, without knowing the explicit terms I've learned from here. I grossed out at Tom Hanks' accent in the Terminal, When they asked the bespectacled chinese man at work if he could fix the computers at work when it was clearly not his job I paid that guy out for it, I snorted at the ad campaign where the woman does basic yoga advertising eye exeercises with the phrase 'eye karma'
I've given given given and, sure, we've hit a wall and we'll never be buddies, but if you guys can't have even the slightest bit of encouragement for me, a little backing down, some sort of sideways glance that, despite the battles that have gone on here, can in some way acknowledge we are both very much on the same side of where we want the world to go versus those who would really really exploit, then...
Well, I despair for our side sometimes, because it's just lacking in rational voices. It's drugged out hippies and people blinded by rage and general punishers.

5/28/2006 09:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay, pretty much scratch that çause I've been thinking.

I don't want you to take on this philosophy I've been preaching. People who try to change the way other people fundamentally think like that are (religious or non religious) zealots and that's not on.
Keep doing what you're doing, take none of my thoughts unless you totally want to, your way for you my way for me and in the meantime we're pretty inconcilable, but...

I fucked it up this time, but It wasn't real considered and I reckon that when the real test comes along, I'll stand in the right place. It will be the future, the Mcarthyism and the New Imperialism will make things positivley orwellian, the powers that be will be flying their real colours.
And you guys are smart and strong in ways that I am not and yr fighting the good fight.
When this time comes, and we're all looking back and saying "We were angry at things in 2006, but compared to now they were positivley dreamy" you will find me gunning for your team.
And I'd like at least a glimmer of reconciliation so that in this environment, we can take each others sixes without glancing over the shoulder.
Can I have that with you guys, 'cause I do respect ya?

-Gav

5/29/2006 03:33:00 AM  
Blogger Bankuei said...

Hi Jenn,

Don't even waste time arguing with these folks. The internet is one giant episode of Jerry Springer that plays out, over and over, and since no one actually gets hit with a chair, there's nothing to stop the drama. You probably wouldn't waste time trying to argue with a screaming homeless man on the streets, so I'd recommend ignoring people who fail to read what you're writing and instead choose to argue just to argue.

I am glad you've managed to get the site back up, despite the flood of ignorance.

Chris

5/29/2006 11:37:00 PM  

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